Bob Sheard: In terms of product design. We've got to understand which things within a product design make us think, that make the product do what it's designed to do, that make the product be an obedient product that's going to do, on our behalf, what we want it to do, and those are the form of a product makes us think, the construction of a product makes us think, the technology of a product makes us think and the material makes us think. It makes us think that product is going to do what we want it to do. Then there are the components of product selection that make the product make us feel that we want to belong to that product and that's the branding that makes us feel. It's any patterns that are used that makes us feel. It's any textures and it's any colours, because they represent a kind of a code. You know brown shoes represent outdoors, black boots represent safety wear. So you can see how the codes,y ou know, white sneakers equals tennis, so you can see how the codes make us belong to those products and the tribes that belong to those products. So what's really important is, once you understand the levers that make you feel or think, and you've established your brand code, your brand of values, then you can ascribe the rational values to the elements that make you think and your emotional values to the elements that make you feel. So at Fresh, we always use three rational values, three emotional values. But we've got eight components here. So then we add what makes us, our charisma. That's how we design charisma into a product.

So we add what we stand against to the emotional things, the feeling things, and we add what we stand for to the thinking things. So you have the three rational values and what you stand for that go towards the components that make us think, and the three emotional values and what you stand against towards the emotions that make us feel. So, in product terms, if we start with the first one, the form language of a product that should make us think about what this product does. So, for example, the form language of a Caterpillar boot is durability. You look at it and you think this is durable. The form language of a Ferrari is speed. The form language of a Ducati is irrepressibility. So it's very interesting when you look at form language, especially in automotive. So in cars, it's all about styling. The form language is designed to cover up the engineering, whereas in motorbikes it's designed to reveal the engineering. So Ferrari you get speed, Ducati you get a kind of raw irrepressibility. So the form language, very important that it makes us think and we should choose one of our rational values that becomes the target for that form language. The construction language also makes us think. So in Arc'teryx the construction, which was sonic welding around the products, makes us think this is a progressive future facing product. Where's with Hublot, for example, on watches, you think this is bomb proof. The construction language is there to deliver a sense of being bomb proof. The technological language makes us think Nike Air, makes us think lightweight performance. Salomon, a product we worked on with Salomon XT wings, where we created a technological language that managed sideways but strikes, enabling that product to work in trail running. So it made it bomb proof in terms of ultra terrain running. So when you picked the product up, you saw that, we gave it an exoskeleton that was called skeleton. We gave it cushioning, that was called muscle. We gave it a lacing system that was called tendons. So when you were in the store you looked at the technological language and you immediately understood it, because it was anatomical that shoe went on to sell multi- million, multi hundred millions of sales. It was just through that technological language. So the technology, technological language is very important and you must always put one of your rational values as a target for that. And then, finally, it's the material language. The material language makes us think.

So, for example, with Levi's, the material language makes you feel this is an original. It reveals the character of the product. With Speedo, the material language was all about shark skin and speed. So you can see there where the material language shapes thoughts. So then, when we move from that, so what you've done is you've established form, construction, technology and material, and they all relate more or less to rational values. I mean, they don't, obviously some of them have emotional components, but this is all about the centre of gravity. The centre of gravity for feelings that make us belong are our emotional values and charisma. So with branding, when we see the branding of a product, it makes us feel we want to belong to it. So we redesign the branding on Sealskinz, which became a warrior brand, from a passive seal to a hunting seal. So it felt very aggressive. If you look at FedEx, the branding of FedEx, it just means we're on it. When they presented the branding design, the graphic design for the FedEx logo. I think only one person in the boardroom saw the arrow. And today now go look at the FedEx logo. Between the E and the X is an arrow, and that signifies subconsciously we're on it, makes us feel that.

In terms of the pattern, the pattern that that people use to augment their product designs, LVMH, the monogram makes us feel status. The monogram was a design created from the shadows of the sun. As the sun reflects off Notre Dame through the stone finials, it creates not the LV, but the other shapes, the monogram shapes, and that confers a kind of French classicist status. Another brand for whom pattern is very important, one that we've worked on, is Burberry and the Burberry check. As s soon as you see Burberry check, it's got a feeling of aristocracy around it, although more recently has been subverted a little bit with Peter Savill's version of it, but it's really, really a great signifier that makes us feel British aristocracy. When we move to texture, textures hugely important in terms of making us feel so, one of the textures that had tangible material effect on the performance of that company was micro-down, for Patagonia, it transformed the fortunes of that company, but it had the feeling of lightweight warmth. Similarly, the nubuck suede of a Timberland shoe has the feeling of quality. So texture is really important because it's one of our senses. The tactility is very important.

Then, finally, in terms of a component that makes us feel, it's colour. So colour makes us feel that we want to belong to that code. So the colours that we created for the brand Zoggs, which was the child brand system and wonder, were very optimistic and bright, contrast that with one of the brands I worked on back in the day, Benetton. The colours, the United Colours of Benetton, entirely designed to make us feel included and inclusive. So there we can see that with colour, texture, pattern and branding, we can start to make those components tell different emotional stories by using and connecting them to the emotional values over the brand or the charisma of the brand. So that's product.‍

Michael Campion: That was great. I enjoyed that. Yeah, I was just wondering about I really like the quote from Rachel Thomas that every choice has a consequence. Every choice has a meaning, whether you intend it or not. I guess there is a responsibility and also a privilege inherent in brand design that you must not get it wrong, or that you can't get it wrong, or that you think you can be right and still get it wrong, because everyone has a different semantic network, don't they? When you think of the colour red or the colour blue, it means different things to different people. But, as you said, it's where the centre of gravity lies.

Bob Sheard: What we do here is if you can start your product design with a plan that connects product components and product attributes to brand attributes, then you're more likely, when that product is accessed by a consumer alongside your brand communication, you're more likely to have an integrated story and messaging amplified, simplified and amplified. That makes sense to the truth of the brand, which is why we follow the similar process when it comes to communication design as well.