Michael Campion: Every company, every brand is now essentially a media company. Even as individuals, we are all media companies. We can broadcast digital content worldwide with a click of a button. So how can brands activate in such a way that their message doesn't simply get lost in the noise?

Bob Sheard: So activating, as we've moved beyond the three crises of the credit crisis, the COVID crisis and we're now in a cost of living crisis, were effectively massive changes that are shaping the way consumers see their relationships with brands. So when we're activating, we must understand that consumers, now more than ever, want responsibly made, sustainably sourced products. They want a brand to value them, make them feel valued, make them feel an individual and, at the same time, make them feel part of something. So what we have to do in that situation is go back to our purpose and think about our purpose in terms of moral as well as market purpose, communal as well as commercial gain, and think of it in terms of our values instead of just value. And so we have to reflect, as we activate, those sensibilities because they exist across Gen X, gGen Y and Gen Z, they're universal. So we need to be aware of them. We also have to be aware of the impact of the influencer and how the influencer can help drive awareness and actual material sales. And the influencer means that we have to build into our activation the ability to co-create product and co-create campaigns. That means that we create versions of them that influencers can select from. That give the sense of co-creation, then we have to understand that the digital sphere, web 2.0, is a thing that's catalyzed that brands are effectively media companies with media content. So what the digital sphere has enabled us to do is to generate content around which we can design a community to coalesce, and that will then create commerce. So content, community and commerce, all underpinned by fantastic narratives and content. So, depending on where you are, if it's a Gen Z brand or a Gen Y brand or a Gen X brand, it can be Gen X. It's about 50 pieces of content, one per week, so 50 pieces a year, but that can triple for Gen Z. But effectively, as a brand, you're becoming a, if you like, a media company with its own content and social channels are your media. And then the other moving part is now on the horizon, which is the solution that no one knows the problem it's solving yet, but it's the metaverse. And with the metaverse, brands will be invited to explore the opportunity of moving from a physical space to a virtual space, moving from products to actions and moving from brand effect to brand impact. And so, with the metaverse, with the rise of the influencer, with shifts in consumer behavior and with the digital sphere, there are incredible moving, dynamic patterns of change. So when we try and navigate those, as we activate, there's only one way you can do it. And it's like when you're telling a kid when a kid's like you know, children today have got more messaging, more inputs in one year of their life than many humans had in the whole of their life. And you're faced with the question how do I stop being bounced around by all these mad influences, all this massive dynamic change? And, like with a child, when you say actually the only way you can navigate this is having a true sense of self. Once you understand who you are and what you do, then that helps you navigate all this rapid change, rapid influences. And it's the same with a brand. When you're looking at the dynamic patterns of consumer change, digital change, influencer change and metaversial change, the only way to truly understand how to navigate that is to have a have a critical sense of your brand, your product, your purpose, your personality and your position. And having a critical sense of those four things is what enables you to make the right choices as you're faced with these critical elements of change. And that's how you activate.

Michael Campion: Fantastic, great way to finish, but I agree with you on so many levels there that every single brand now, every single person actually is a media company, which is why you know you've seen the rise of the personal brand, and I like that having a true sense of self will help you navigate the noise. It will act as the compass and guide you in the right direction at all times, because you see so many brands kind of rushing to embrace the next new thing, whether that was Twitter, whether it's now TikTok or Douyin, or you know, if it was influencers, KOLs, whatever it is, we're all trying to jump on the latest trend. Always and again, it always comes back down to great storytelling knowing who you are, knowing what you're selling, knowing what effect you want to have on the people you interact with, isn't it?

Bob Sheard: Yeah, and knowing that not doing something is an active choice. You know, waiting to see, not rushing into things, waiting to see how things pan out. I'm always struck by which is, I suppose, quite a good way to conclude this I'm always struck by the clothes I wear, a subject of changes in fashion, colour changes from influencer trends, cultural changes. You know, all our clothes are subject to such a lot of change. Yet when I look at my clothes, they're recognizable to my grandparents and my grandparents' parents. Fundamentally, trousers haven't changed, jumpers haven't changed, shirts haven't really changed. So there are fundamentals, material constructions, that don't change depending on the fashion. Now, the colours obviously change, the size of the collars change and things like that. So understanding what changes and what doesn't is important. In product terms, in communication terms, the media will continue to change, but the stories we tell through that media will continue to be stories that exist in our subconscious, stories that we've heard through the ages and that are antecedents heard through the ages. The stories and the narratives don't change. Similarly, the stories and the narratives don't change depending on where we live in the world, because our emotions are universal. We all feel happiness, we all feel sadness. We all relate to the same narratives. We all kind of wear the same clothing, so sometimes you can get overwhelmed by the change and actually when you can just look through it and see actually, not all of it changes. Narrative doesn't change.